Andrew, 49, Leeds
Occupation Electrician
Voting file Labour for a few years. He didn’t vote for Brexit, however voted Conservative in 2019 to “simply get it achieved and let all of the crap occur”. He has voted Inexperienced due to local weather change, and most not too long ago for Reform
Amuse bouche His interest is paragliding. A number of hours earlier than assembly Oliver he was flying over the Yorkshire Dales
Oliver, 39, Leeds
Occupation English-language examiner and Labour councillor
Voting file Labour
Amuse bouche He was hit by lightning when he was a toddler, indoors, standing by a steel sink. Unsurprisingly, he doesn’t bear in mind it
For starters
Andrew It was nerve-racking, like a blind date. You don’t wish to look like the arsehole, however you do wish to get your level throughout. I had two veggie bao buns to start out, and a tomato linguine. We shared a fruity bottle of white wine, and had espresso afterwards.
Oliver I arrived feeling curious. I had a bread and olives platter and a poke salad, and we had a potato rosti on the facet. A carb overload!
The massive beef
Andrew Our disagreement on immigration involved the small boats. We agreed that one of many drivers of immigration is the necessity for low-paid staff to do jobs that individuals don’t wish to do. You may pay £2,000 every week for dementia care, and but the individual taking care of the affected person is paid the minimal wage. It’s simpler for firms to foyer for greater ranges of immigration than pay a good wage.
Oliver Folks can really feel undercut if unscrupulous employers mainly use folks as low cost labour. Andrew wasn’t blaming people. He might see why folks would do it. However, equally, I can completely see why any individual who’s working in a lower-paid job or who’s acquired a specific commerce can really feel undercut.
Andrew My level was: why don’t folks use the authorized routes? I didn’t realise that, even when somebody does apply by means of a authorized asylum course of, it may take 5 years to get settled within the new nation. A number of the conditions individuals are in imply they’re going to be useless in a couple of 12 months. So I don’t blame them for coming over that method. I’d do the identical.
Oliver Immigration and refugee safety programs, nationally and internationally, are struggling to maintain up with legal gangs, which have recognized a transparent demand and make huge quantities of cash.
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Sharing plate
Andrew I’ve considerations concerning the remedy of girls and homosexual folks in Muslim-majority nations – it’s utterly out of kilter with how we do it. Earlier than assembly Oliver, I assumed that in the event you’re came upon to be homosexual in Saudi, you die.
Oliver I believe Andrew would wish to see extra Muslim figures publicly stating their help for LGBTQ+ rights. As a homosexual man who has labored for 5 years in Saudi Arabia and for 3 years in Kurdistan, Iraq, I really feel that it’s extra nuanced. It is dependent upon the actual neighborhood – there’s no such factor as one Muslim ideology, simply as there’s no such factor as one Christian ideology.
For afters
Oliver We talked about Lucy Connolly, the Tory councillor’s spouse who was jailed for calling for asylum seekers’ inns to be set on fireplace after the Southport killings. What she wrote was horrific, and induced actual terror to folks inside inns, who had already had fairly traumatic experiences. There ought to be penalties for issues that individuals submit on-line, if it incites hurt or hatred in opposition to folks.
Andrew A sentence of 31 months appears a bit harsh. I’m not saying she’s harmless; she deleted her tweet after 4 hours and it had 1 / 4 of one million views. However they’ve not left themselves any wiggle room. Kneecap allegedly said “Kill your local MP” throughout a present, and MPs have been killed prior to now – they didn’t face costs, however ought to they then have been given 31 months?
Takeaways
Andrew The most important factor I’ll take away is that the authorized route to say asylum doesn’t work. I hadn’t appreciated how lengthy it takes and the way tough it’s.
Oliver It’s actually vital to have respectful conversations with folks with completely different views – and to take heed to the emotion and the expertise behind their opinions, not merely soar to a conclusion about what sort of individual holds it.
Further reporting: Kitty Drake
Andrew and Oliver ate at The Lock Kitchen, Bar and Terrace in Leeds
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